HONESTY, CHARITY, AND OBJECTIVE MORAL NORMS PT. 5

4/10/2024

The latest news, viewer questions, our book of the month, plus hosts Father Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss eight common laws that pervade most religions and many moral philosophies.

HONESTY, CHARITY, AND OBJECTIVE MORAL NORMS PT. 4

4/3/2024

Why is the secular culture more permissive of sins like adultery and abortion, but less tolerant of cheating, lying and stealing? Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck offer some theories.

HONESTY, CHARITY, AND OBJECTIVE MORAL NORMS PT. 3

3/27/2024

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss how the Enlightenment ideal led to a progressively more radical view of freedom, an end in itself and the meaning of life in contemporary culture.

HONESTY, CHARITY, AND OBJECTIVE MORAL NORMS PT. 2

3/20/2024

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck explain how the loss of objective moral norms within our culture and in some respects in our churches, has led to the decline of love, civility and faith.

HONESTY, CHARITY, AND OBJECTIVE MORAL NORMS PT. 1

3/13/2024

Our hosts discuss how human flourishing is impossible without a culture of life. It keeps the powerful, wealthy and influential from controlling the lives of those at the margins.

ANSWERING VIEWER QUESTIONS

3/6/2024

Viewers pose questions of faith for Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck, asking why can’t we pray for ourselves in Purgatory and how do we discern if our thoughts are our own or from God?

THE INTRINSIC DIGNITY OF ALL HUMAN LIFE

2/28/2024

A discussion on how contrary to popular myth, religion is not an impediment to strong principles and ideals, but rather is one of the greatest motivators of them.

TRUE AND FALSE PROMISES IN MODERN SEXUAL NORMS, pt. 1

2/21/2024

Fr. Spitzer and Doug discuss how all human life is endowed with intrinsic dignity. This prohibits antilife measures such as abortion, birth control or gender affirming therapy.

CULTURAL EFFECTS OF PORNOGRAPHY

2/14/2024

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck explode the myth that religion is an impediment to strong principles and ideals, explaining how it instead is one of the greatest motivators of them.

ANSWERING VIEWER QUESTIONS

2/7/2024

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck answer viewer questions about faith. They discuss topics such as why did God allow Adam to name Eve, and did St Paul really struggle with habitual sin.

THE SPIRITUAL EFFECTS OF PORNOGRAPHY PT. 3

1/31/2024

Our hosts discuss the best way to deal with the problem of pornography is to resist it at the outset, turning to the Lord and availing ourselves of the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

THE SPIRITUAL EFFECTS OF PORNOGRAPHY PT. 2

1/24/2024

Satan works by leading us to an opportunity for sin, enflaming our imagination, providing rationalizations, and gambling that we will freely choose to follow him into temptation.

THE SPIRITUAL EFFECTS OF PORNOGRAPHY PT. 1

1/17/2024

Our hosts discuss the spiritual effects of pornography, explaining how we tend to rationalize pornography as victimless and “minor among sins” because so many people are doing it.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 23

1/10/2024

Our hosts discuss the phenomenon of “social norming.” Expectations of appropriate behavior that society expects have increased dramatically with the internet and social media.

ANSWERING VIEWER QUESTIONS

1/3/2024

Viewers send in questions of faith for Fr. Spitzer, while Doug initiates a lively discussion on the fallacies of transgenderism and why Catholics do not believe in predestination.

ANSWERING VIEWER QUESTIONS

12/27/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug answer questions about faith sent in by our viewers, discuss the distraction of bad music at the Mass and explain whether we will see our loved ones in Heaven.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 22

12/20/2023

Our hosts discuss how secular culture separates sexuality from its intended purpose. The further we move from Church teaching, the closer we come to our culture’s self-destruction.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 21

12/13/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss how the Church’s view on sexuality differs from that of the popular culture, and why younger people today do not even consider the Church’s view.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 20

12/6/2023

Our hosts discuss how social norming has increased promiscuity in a culture that has separated sexuality from filial love, as they continue covering topics from Father’s new book.

ANSWERING VIEWER QUESTIONS

11/29/2023

Viewer questions are front and center as Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck address matters of faith chosen by the audience, including the ordination of women and the Wedding Feast at Cana.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 19

11/22/2023

Our hosts discuss why evil exists, and the essence of Augustine of Hippo’s statement that an unjust law is no law at all. What’s more important is who determines if a law is just.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 18

11/15/2023

A look at how Pope Leo XIII’s social encyclical, Rerum Novarum, issued in 1891, set out guidelines for political and economic justice and rights within complex economic systems.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 17

11/8/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss topics from Father’s new book, including the impact on society of Jesus’ teaching that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath.

ANSWERING VIEWERS QUESTIONS

11/1/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck answer questions about the faith sent in by our viewers. They also cover topics in the news, discuss the dangers of Ouija boards, and address how people can progress in their moral life.

FR SPITZER’S UNIVERSE NAPA SPECIAL 2023

10/25/2023

A special edition from the 13th Annual Napa Summer Conference. Our hosts field questions about the possibility of other life in the universe, and is it okay to enjoy the good things in life when others are suffering.

ANSWERING VIEWERS QUESTIONS

10/18/2023

EWTN viewers have a variety of questions today for Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck. They ask if free will is an illusion, what is the Christian response to lawlessness, and do we show disrespect by praying directly to God?

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 16

10/11/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck talk about obedience, and how obedience out of love is quite different from obedience out of fear and obedience out of coercion.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, PT. 15

10/4/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug discuss Jesus’ primary mission objective to defeat Satan and his minions, while bringing the Kingdom of God, sharing the good news, and initiating His Church.

ANSWERING VIEWERS' QUESTIONS

9/27/2023

Today, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck answer a range of viewer questions. They tackle such topics as: Is it sinful not to attend a mother’s funeral, and where can one find secular studies to back up the Church’s teaching?

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, pt. 14

9/20/2023

In the latest topic from Father’s new book “The Moral Wisdom the Catholic Church,” Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss that the more a person ignores moral laws, the greater the chance of increased anxiety and depression.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 13

9/13/2023

Continuing their discussion on the moral wisdom of the Catholic Church, our hosts explain that the more a society is committed to these moral teachings, the more a harmonious culture will prevail for that society.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 12

9/6/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug explain how the Church’s objective moral norms are meant for our development and happiness. By accepting them as gifts that lead us closer to God, they will no longer seem unfair or burdensome.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 11

8/30/2023

As outlined in his book on the Church’s moral wisdom, Fr. Spitzer explains how the future of our culture and society may well depend upon the extent to which we can restore objective moral norms, religion and conscience.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 10

8/23/2023

In today’s discussion, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck talk about how people can obtain their moral identity from many sources, including religion, conscience and common beliefs, but religion is the most powerful source.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 9

8/16/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck examine topics in the news, answer questions from viewers, preview some of the latest new books, and discuss why there is evil in the world and how a good God can allow evil to happen.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 8

8/9/2023

In today’s discussion, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss the objective moral norms that are necessary for the emotional and spiritual health of individuals, and the stability and strength of marriages and families.

ANSWERING VIEWERS QUESTIONS

8/2/2023

On today’s show, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck answer questions sent in by viewers, covering topics such as: Is it sinful not to attend a mother’s funeral, and where can one find secular studies to back up Church teaching?

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 7

7/26/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug continue discussing topics from Father’s new book. While secular culture deems Catholic moral teachings to be outdated, insensitive and invalid, scientific studies show them to to be correct.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 6

7/19/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck cover the latest news topics, answer questions and discuss the Church’s teachings on sexual morality. As they are increasingly ignored, we see skyrocketing rates of divorce and sexual violence.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 5

7/12/2023

In today’s discussion, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss that before rejecting a teaching of the Church, we should ask why that teaching is there in the first place. That, plus a preview of the upcoming NAPA conference.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 4

6/28/2023

Learn why the secular culture resists Church teachings because it finds them burdensome, as our hosts cover the latest news, viewer questions, and topics from Father’s book “Moral Wisdom of the Catholic Church.”

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 3

6/21/2023

On today’s episode, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss why the Lord, in allowing us to be free, delays the full revelation of His love and the darkness of Satan, until we freely choose His way rather than our enemy’s.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 2

6/14/2023

Our hosts delve deeper into Fr. Spitzer’s new book, “The Moral Wisdom the Catholic Church.” Learn why moral conversion is important and leads to a happier life. Plus, get a preview of this year’s EWTN Family Celebration.

THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PT. 1

6/7/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck provide an enlightened perspective on several controversial stories in the news, and begin a robust discussion of Father’s new book, “The Moral Wisdom of the Catholic Church.”

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 12

5/31/2023

Our hosts review topics in the news, preview important new books and discuss how through frequent reception of Holy Eucharist, we identify with the heart of Jesus and grow in the desire for His virtues.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 11

5/24/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss why there can be no greater prayer, no greater grace, no greater transformative power, and no greater path to salvation than the faithful reception of the Holy Eucharist.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 10

5/17/2023

Today’s topic: How the unifying aspect of the Holy Eucharist isn’t limited to enhancing individual believers, it’s a way for them to participate in the universal Church – both in this world and in the kingdom of Heaven.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 9

5/10/2023

Updates on the latest Catholic news, questions from our EWTN viewers, and Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss how through reception of the Eucharist, the Heart of Jesus will begin to affect and transform our hearts.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 8

5/3/2023

Post-pandemic, more young people believe in a higher power. Our hosts discuss the latest NY Post poll, and explain Paul’s admonition to not receive the Eucharist unworthily if we want to turn our life away from sin.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 7

4/26/2023

Fr. Spitzer explains how the transformative graces of the Eucharist changed his life, making God the most important thing in it. Plus, he and Doug cover more topics from Father’s book “Escape from Evil’s Darkness.”

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 6

4/19/2023

On today’s episode, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck explore how religiousity leads to good mental health. They also reflect on various aspects of the Resurrection of Christ and the effect it had on those around Jesus.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 5

4/12/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss studies on Jesus’ burial cloth and how latest research shows the shroud can be dated to the time of Christ. Plus, the latest topics in the news, and Catholic books you’ll want to read.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 4

4/5/2023

Father and Doug Keck discuss the Didache, an early Christian treatise, and explore how this ancient manuscript describes the Mass as a sacrament and a sacrifice and outlines the roles of prophets, presbyters and priests.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 3

3/29/2023

As they continue their discussion on topics from Father’s book “Escape from Evil’s Darkness”, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck examine the difference between physical time and sacred time in how it relates to the Eucharist.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST PT. 2

3/22/2023

Topics in the news, questions from viewers, and more from Father’s new book, “Escape from Evil’s Darkness,” including how Jesus forms a new covenant with us through the Eucharist, a covenant guaranteed with His blood.

THE HOLY EUCHARIST

3/15/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck explain the first and most important habit for deepening our spiritual conversion is participation in the Eucharistic liturgy, and the reception of the real presence of the Lord at Communion.

PRIDE PT. 7

3/8/2023

Our hosts examine the sin of pride in literature by looking at Shakespeare’s Macbeth, showing how no one can escape being judged by one’s own actions. Plus, topics in the news, viewer questions and our book of the month.

PRIDE PT. 6

3/1/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss examples of pride from literature. In Milton’s “Paradise Lost,” Father explains how the devil tries to convince fellow fallen angels it is better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.

PRIDE PT. 5

2/22/2023

A growing number of non-Catholics seek ashes on Ash Wednesday, Vermont moves to relax rules for assisted suicide, the plumeting birth rate in Japan and our increased vulnerability when we separate ourselves from Christ.

PRIDE PT. 4

2/15/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug discuss the destructiveness of pride in the Bible, as when Saul was transformed from a humble man to a proud king who flagrantly disobeyed the Lord. Plus, a first-hand look at miracles from Lourdes.

PRIDE PT. 3

2/1/2023

As they examine the sin of Pride, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck explain why a proud man undermines and injures others for the sheer pleasure of it. Causing pain to others gives him control and makes him feel superior.

PRIDE PT. 2

1/25/2023

As they cover topics from Father’s book, our hosts explain how pride results in the marginalization of God, religion, empathy and conscience, causing the ascendency of the absolute, arbitrary and the cruel use of power.

PRIDE PT. 1

1/18/2023

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck reflect upon the death of George Cardinal Pell, and discuss the upcoming Marches for Life. Plus, how the growth of pride triggers a corresponding decline of empathy, conscience, care and love.

ENVY PT. 3

1/4/2023

The enduring impact of Benedict XVI’s papacy. Plus, Fr. Spitzer and Doug discuss Envy, a nearly uncontrollable irrational passion, bordering on intense hatred, that will eventually consume the person from which it comes.

ANSWERING VIEWERS’ QUESTIONS

12/28/2022

Just when our hosts thought they’d answered all of our viewers’ questions about Christmas, a new mailbag has arrived with many more. See what’s on the minds of Catholics as they approach this most holy of seasons.

ANSWERING VIEWERS’ QUESTIONS ABOUT CHRISTMAS

12/21/2022

Questions about Christmas are on the agenda for today’s show. Doug and Fr. Spitzer discuss their Christmas traditions and plans, and respond to queries from our viewers about Advent and the true meaning of Christmas.

ENVY PT. 1

12/7/2022

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss how the sin of envy figures prominently in the Bible and lies at the center of two important initial narratives in Genesis: the story of Adam and Eve, and the story of Cain and Abel.

ANSWERING VIEWER'S QUESTIONS

11/30/2022

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck respond to questions on the minds of our viewers. Topics include angels, rosary beads, religious articles, non-Catholic prayers, the weather, apostolic pardons, the final judgment and anxiety.

VANITY PT. 3

11/23/2022

Doug Keck and Fr. Spitzer explain how vanity has undermined everything of substance in our culture, threatening its future as well as the individuals within it. So why does it continue to be the deadly sin of choice?

VANITY PT. 2

11/16/2022

Expanding on his book, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss how vanity has the power to undermine our identity, relationships with others, emotional state, and even our ability to accept salvation when it is offered to us.

VANITY

11/9/2022

Doug Keck and Fr. Spitzer discuss how vanity leads us to believe the façade we present to others is what people are interested in, not who we truly are. And a surprising study on the priesthood from Catholic World Report.

THE DEADLY SINS

11/2/2022

Using examples from C. S. Lewis’ book, “The Great Divorce,” Fr. Spitzer and Doug discuss how vanity can blind us from knowing our own true self. Plus, a look at the decline in abortions after Roe v. Wade is overturned.

SATAN AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT

10/26/2022

Father Spitzer and Doug Keck talk about doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, and how Satan’s influence can discourage even our most noble ambitions. Plus, the latest news topics and questions from the audience.

SATAN USES THE CULTURE FOR LARGE SCALE TEMPTATION PT. 3

10/19/2022

The latest developments on abortion in the news, questions from our viewers, and our hosts discuss how Satan can use Affective Desolation to keep us from doing good, as they cover more topics from Father’s new book.

SPECIAL FAMILY CELEBRATION FR SPITZER'S UNIVERSE

10/9/2022

EWTN personalities join Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck for this live edition of Father Spitzer’s Universe. Guests include Fr. Mitch, Johnnette Williams, Jerry Usher, Debbie Georgianni, Crystalina Evert and David Anders.

SATAN USES THE CULTURE FOR LARGE SCALE TEMPTATION PT. 2

10/5/2022

The latest news topics and questions from viewers. Plus, our hosts discuss how morally relativistic philosophies ignore conscience, and lead to the abandonment of objective principles, utilitarianism, and situationism.

SATAN USES THE CULTURE FOR LARGE SCALE TEMPTATION PT. 1

9/28/2022

Doug and Fr. Spitzer discuss how Satan tempts people by pushing the entitlement culture, that we’re each entitled to good things in life without sacrificing. That, plus the latest news on the battle against abortion.

SATAN'S PREPARATION FOR EFFECTIVE TEMPTATIONS PT. 3

9/21/2022

A believer’s best defense against temptation is the subject of today’s discussion. Fr. Spitzer explains how the three divine gifts of faith, empathy and conscience are an effective tool against Satan’s machinations.

SATAN’S PREPARATION FOR EFFECTIVE TEMPTATIONS PT. 2

9/14/2022

Satan uses a variety of tactics to tempt us. Doug and Father Spitzer look at some of those ways, and examine news stories, answer viewer questions and review fascinating books available from the EWTN Religious Catalog.

SATAN'S PREPARATION FOR EFFECTIVE TEMPTATIONS

9/7/2022

Satan’s favorite tool is temptation. Today, Doug and Fr. Spitzer explain how temptation functions, and also how prudence, temperance, and fortitude mitigate it, helping the believer to reduce and resist temptation.

CUSTOMIZING TEMPTATION PT. 8

8/31/2022

Fr. Spitzer and Doug review Dr. Ray Guarendi’s latest book, discuss why Christians support abortion rights, and explain how Satan begins in childhood trying to undermine the religious commitment and beliefs of a person.

ANSWERING VIEWER'S QUESTIONS

8/24/2022

Today, Doug and Fr. Spitzer focus on your questions. Hear their viewpoints, and the Church’s teaching, on issues such as abortion, divorce and remarriage, keeping the faith, respecting the dead, and fallen angels.

CUSTOMIZING TEMPTATION PT. 7

8/17/2022

Satan has promoted a false doctrine that God looks only at a believer’s imperfections, not the good they have within. Today, Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck dispel that myth, and discuss topics and stories making news.

VIEWERS QUESTIONS

8/10/2022

Questions for Fr. Spitzer include whether a Catholic turned atheist can be saved, do Mary and the saints play a role in exorcisms, and is the Shroud of Turin a product of medieval photography? Hear his surprising answers.

VIEWERS QUESTIONS

8/3/2022

With the recent Supreme Court decision on abortion, many Catholics have questions regarding the Church’s teaching. Fr. Spitzer answers them all, including ectopic pregnancies, frozen embryos, and end of life care.

CUSTOMIZING TEMPTATION PT. 6

7/27/2022

CUSTOMIZING TEMPTATION PT. 5

7/20/2022

CUSTOMIZING TEMPTATION PT. 4

7/13/2022

The Holy Spirit never stops providing inspiration for us to choose God, but it’s up to us to make the choice. Doug and Fr. Spitzer discuss this, plus how to answer 5 key questions about abortion and the Catholic Church.

ANSWERING VIEWERS QUESTIONS

7/6/2022

Questions sent in by viewers include demonic possession, how to treat those with same-sex attraction, marriages without the possibility of conception, obligations for end of life care, and sins that priests cannot absolve.

CUSTOMIZING TEMPTATION PT. 3

6/29/2022

Father Spitzer and Doug explore seven myths about overturning Roe v. Wade, and discuss how Satan disguises the emptiness, alienation and loneliness arising from a life of depravity by providing false consolations.

CUSTOMIZING TEMPTATION PT. 2

6/22/2022

Doug and Fr. Spitzer discuss Supreme Court rulings, anti-Catholic attacks and threats against pregnancy centers. Plus, more topics from Father’s book, including why those without religious convictions are easy to tempt.

CUSTOMIZING TEMPTATION

6/15/2022

How does the devil always know which sins are the most attractive to us? Fr. Spitzer and Doug discuss how to resist temptation, and debate whether a Catholic professor can maintain his identity in a secular school.

THE CARDINAL VIRTUES PT. 2

6/1/2022

Continuing their discussion on cardinal virtues, Doug and Fr. Spitzer show how the power of conscience brands evil actions with deep feelings of shame and guilt, while branding good actions with honor and nobility.

THE CARDINAL VIRTUES

5/25/2022

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss the Texas school shooting, the decision to prohibit Nancy Pelosi from receiving Communion, and how the cardinal virtues can be a useful tool to help us fight and resist temptation.

HUMAN FREEDOM PT. 2

5/18/2022

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss frozen embryos, Planned Parenthood profits and how temptation can be viewed in a completely secular sense, forsaking long-term goals for the satisfaction of temporary strong urges.

HUMAN FREEDOM

5/11/2022

At the center of free will is our capacity for self-consciousness. As they cover topics from Father’s new book, Doug and Fr. Spitzer explain how this enables us to create our own inner world and our own moral essence.

TWO COMMON DEFENSES AGAINST EVIL PT. 3

5/4/2022

Evil spirits work within the confines of human freedom. They cannot overwhelm, suppress, or destroy freedom, because human beings are not robots. They’re responsible for their actions, and must be vigilant against evil.

TWO COMMON DEFENSES AGAINST EVIL PT. 2

4/27/2022

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck look at two common defenses against evil, and discuss how those who spurn religion risk falling into a sense of meaninglessness and despair, mistaking their self-deception as being true freedom.

TWO COMMON DEFENSES AGAINST EVIL

4/20/2022

Father Spitzer’s new book “Christ vs. Satan in Our Daily Lives” shows how the Holy Spirit actively resists the suggestions of evil spirits. He and Doug discuss counter-suggestions and look at the latest news topics.

HOW THE DEVIL WORKS PT. 5

4/13/2022

Fr. Spitzer and Doug Keck discuss the latest news, answer viewer questions and cover topics from Father’s new book. They explain how the more we progress on our path to salvation, the more it helps others do the same.